"The British M&M System Trials Series.

 

Perhaps a NEW way Forward.

Take a look at Mike Waller's M&M scoring System at the bottom of the page ,Could this help to find a way forward for the future?

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Look down the rest of the page and see what you think of the Idea.

It is now up to you to Decide!

I have a venue that I can use if there is interest, and a  prospective time for a trial early in May next year 2017.

There is details about how a M&M trial runs further down the page so I will not repeat it here.

It will be a "Open All Hours" trial with a start when you decide after the sections open, so this gives you five hours to do the two loops.

This is a self marking trial, but you must start in pairs, or small groups, to cut out the Cheating element .

Classes the same as Mikes plus the "Otter" trophy Class. that's it.

But you need to,

 let me know if you are interested NOW.

*****

 

 

Photo Courtesy "Scoop".

Mick Andrews Ariel 350 Rigid 

Mick Andrews Introduced us to the Gate system of trials at the 2010

 

Classic Trials Show 

This used a "Bonus Gate" to reduce your score.

 Mick had seen this used around the World and thought we should give it a go.

 Well we did, and the Star Riders that were there all enjoyed the experience.

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Photo Courtesy Lee Prescott.

Here Steve Ransome riding his BSA "Otter" through the Bonus gate  in one of the sections at the Classic Trials Show.

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Here Is a Taster for you from the 2015 Richford Trophy Trial of Mike's using the M&M Gate system Enjoy.

 

Filmed by a friend of Mike's as you can see Mike a couple of times in the shots,

Mike says his friend chose the music as well! Not that bad Mike.

 

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 One of the Mails to a friend today 02/11/2016.

And there were loads.

But we probably got there in the end. converted I just don't no.

But anything is worth a try surely?

***

E-Mail one of ten.

 

Hi,
 I am going to try a M&M system trial next spring with a all day refreshment van and pig roast  when they finish,
The M&M system is like a round of golf. you keep your own score, and tackle the gates that give you the best score,
And start and do the two laps when you like after the start time and have five hours to do the, 40 sections.
There will be observers with Video cams around the coarse , so if you think you can cheat you will be found out. but why would you want to?
It is all about having fun riding your machine.
It could work, it may not , but again they like it in the USA.
So I have said that I will give it a go.
And I have got the BMCA boys to back me up, I hope?
Regards Charlie.
Later mail,
Hi,

This is the beauty of the M&M system, there is a ride through that you only gain one mark for getting through with out dabbing.
 The other gates are more difficult and if you clean them you get higher marks, twos and threes, you don't loose marks you gain them like in golf.
So there is always a section that you can tackle.
There are videos of how it works on my web site.
Regards Charlie.

 

 

And one more out of eight hours of chat.

Hi.

Yes Brother said that.
I will get onto the AMCA and see what they say.
Yes it would be an all Welcome trial, and having the pig-roast etc, is based on the continental trials. and the M&M one in the USA.
Would perhaps persuade the guy I spoke to yesterday to give it a go.
Twelve month trophies and perhaps a tee shirt with sponsors name on.
I have the “Otter” Cup here waiting, and it would save me polishing it if someone else had it for twelve months.
I am sure**** would be interested, and the *****name would continue.
Charlie.
23/11/2016.
Hi .
Yes I will do the M&M system trial if I do one at all  it will be down to getting insurance at the end of the day, for the right price that is.
Have you realised why clubs stay associated with the AMCA and A-CU?
 For that reason only, because they don't have to worry about putting themselves out to find an underwriter and the hassle  that causes,Clubs are run on a social event once a week night out at a pub somewhere, and most only ever show up for the cut price meal at the annual prise giving for the plastic cups.
One or two stalwarts  plot out a trial on a Saturday afternoon and just hope that they get enough observers for the Sunday, as no one as been approached to do the job until signing on. I do walk about (Badly) with my eyes open and know this is right.
So change is not going to happen with these people, and that is why we need to try something New. and like you say have Fun riding ANY bike you turn up with.
And the M&M system is the only thing that has come to the fore for this to happen.
To many routes is not an option anymore, because they just don't work, and if you were picked of the street to observe would you know what you were doing trying to mark these.?
Regards Charlie.
*******
Mike mailed me today. 03/11/2016.
Hello Charlie,

   An M&M trial in the UK, I think that you will like it. I have attached a copy of the score cards that I use.
If you have Excel you will be able to see them better than the HTML page, and print out a copy, but I wasn't sure what software you would have.
I print them on what is letter size card here which is just smaller than A4 (they don't go in much for international standards here), and get two to a sheet then just cut them apart.
As you will see there is a space for each score on each loop and then spaces for the loop totals.
As each person signs up I give them a scorecard (different colours for the three classes), a cheap felt tip pen and a small bulldog clip. I put it all in a ziplock bag in case it rains.

   Anyway, just thought you might like to see my scorecards.

Regards.

Mike.
Charlie,>Score Card copies will be here later.
*******

So We now even have the card format from Mike.
Yes I can print them off,
Life does not have to be complicated. does it.
Lets just try something new that is has simple as. this.
*****
Mike Mailed me on 09/11/2016.
`````````````````````
Hello Charlie,

I was just looking at the copy of the scorecard on your site and it struck me that it looks like each rider gets a card for each loop. I keep the card as one piece just folded in the middle and the rider keeps it for the whole trial. You probably realised that but I thought I would mention it.

Also the activity at your end has got me thinking about the system and how I came up with it. Here riders are "series" mad. Stand alone trials like mine are rare, and organisers seem to think that they are running a world round with rules, rules and more rules. I wanted to get away from that and it has suddenly struck me that that is at the centre of my trial. The rider is paramount not the organiser. Hence gates that you choose instead of a preset line that ends up being a bit like Goldilock's porridge. Sometimes too hard, sometimes too easy, and sometimes just right as far as the individual rider is concerned. No need to ask club members etc to give up the chance to ride to be an Observer (checkers they are called here). Same with the open start time, the barbeque and the fun hill climb. I just want it to be a great day out that will encourage people to ride old bikes for fun not for trophies.  Any way, there is my two pence worth.

Before I go thank you again for your support and coverage of the videos. Nearly 400 subscribers now and they seem to be enjoying what they see.

Regards.

Mike.
~Oo> 
Here Mike explains the system to us.
*******
Thank's Mike.
And what did not Happen in 2016.

 

Deryk  and I thought we could perhaps retrieve the format stated by Deryk below.in 2016,  but it seems it fell onto deaf ears so can we try something New for this country?

The M&M System trials marking,in 2017

Deryk,>

This what I have said: ORR-e 39.
"The likely result of the refusal of the A-CU to address the classification problems of the Sammy Miller series is the decimation of interest from the riders of the pre-unit British machines. The very machines that the whole series was created for in order to guarantee a future relevance in 

actual competition rather than in the museums and showgrounds!

I have had interesting conversations with several riders and organisers, all wondering whether a solution could be found to ensure adequate competitive events for riders of such machines - conversations which often start with queries as to how you can guarantee a sensible sized entry - large enough to justify the effort of putting on a trial.

Well I am sure that an answer is already staring us in the face.

When I originally created the series that developed into the Sammy Miller series, it was known as the British Bike Championship - simply because the championship awards were presented by my good friends Tim 

Holmes and Rebecca, who had created the British Bike magazine, for whom I wrote a column. Does the answer lie in that name?

Somerton Classic already have a Two-day Charity event, which is a British Bike 

Trial and last year attracted the healthy entry of EIGHTY riders - so I firmly believe that if a sponsor can be found a small series of clubs around the country can be persuaded to either organise a British Bike trial, or incorporate a British Bike series of classes into an existing event.

  I am prepared to act as coordinator if needed, to have a central point of contact for distribution of regulations and entry forms - or maybe create a totally separate website. ( or you could use this BSA Otter Site!) ~Oo>

Naturally all the events will be featured in these pages. (And on the BSA Otter Site)  Now it really is time for those interested to stand up and be counted, so an email to me with your thoughts would be an excellent move.

In the following pages I have selected some images of riders of suitable machines that were seen in action in 2015 just to give you some idea of the potential numbers that could be interested........."Deryk.

09/05/2016.

Firstly it looks like Charlie Otter ~Oo>. was right  and Deryk and I have been wasting our breath, except from the "Boys" of the BMCA supporting our cause.

 

What a difference "Twenty" years make. Have we really forgotten about our once thriving "British Motorcycle Industry"? and the way we enjoyed trials riding.

Or is it just us Old Boys ebbing away just trying to clutch onto our distant dreams.

Has the younger generations really dumped there British Routes, and Heritage?

There are one or two that will be classed as eccentrics playing with Old British Trials Irons,and the ones not that old like the BSA "Otter", but will they really get mocked by the vast majority of so called trials riders, that now more resemble Clowns in the circus trying a new trick on there pogo-stick, rather than testing the reliability of a everyday two wheeled transport machine?

Well that is what Motorcycle reliability trials were started for.

And not to copy the more  recently established  BMX cycle trend.

Enough of the rant "For Now"

Here is the page read it and these classes were full and overflowing then. So what really has gone wrong?

Over to Deryk.

Article from Offroad Review written by BRITISH BikE Trials coordinator and one of the Original brains behind the series. Deryk Wylde.

 

Photo Courtesy Offroad Archives.

"Odgie" Dannan BSA C12.    ~Oo> This guy don't spend a fortune building his bikes either. Just a "Jolly fine" engineer, but also "Odgie" does not conform to the norm so I bet he would enjoy trying this new M&M trials format, for machines that seem to be no longer catered for. 

 

Photo Courtesy "Hammertight"

 

From recent BMCA Trial. 2016. A BSA B32 Gold Star. ~Oo> Nice shot Al.

 

With these Boys riding a trial nearly every week during there series I am sure they would have a go at a trial using the M&M system, if asked.

 

You can also do the same, mail me at char7748@tiscali.co.uk with your comments. we are here to help the situation,  show your interest,

 ~Oo> Or use the Comments or Contact me page. come on do it ,

 

Charlie >

Has for the sidecar situation, if Lee and I had enough interest we would defiantly think about to try and  do at least one, trial for "British Trials Sidecars", to see how the situation panned out, and this could be a Two Day affair if the interest was there.

It is really just down to you guy's ,do you want a trial of this type based on the knowledge gained in 2010 at the Classic Trials Show?

 

And we also could Try the M&M system for sidecars. 

 

 Let me know on these pages, and we will see what we can do.

 

I did have a bit to do with the Sidecar Original British Bike Scene 1964

Dan Shorey and "Curly" P, AKA Charlie Prescott.

Ariel 500 Red Hunter with Sep Ellis tuned Ariel HS motor.

Kendall Chair.

Remember This from 2010?

You only have to let me know if you are interested again, and we would see what we could do.

 

 

Ian Hannam Debbie Smith.on a tricky Classic Trials show section. aboard the RTS tuned BSA B44 outfit.

 

 

Rob Cammeron and Andy Smith. Let me know with interest. Do you want another CTS type trial?

We could use the Mike Waller M&M system?

Same venue Stoneleigh perhaps, or even a New one close too.

 with the same sort of terrain. 

 

 

Peter Dale and Barry Pocock piloting the "Foster "Otter" Triumph engined Plot. , let me know if you are interested?

In a Classic British Sidecar Trials Show.  ~Oo> Nice greyscale snaps guy's.

 

 

Henry Gaunt passengered by Jill Andrews,Practising at the Classic Trials Show 2010.

Mail me if you are interested in having another of these events?

and perhaps using the Mike Waller M&M scoring system.

 

char7748@tiscali.co.uk      

 

Photo Credit."Otterman"

 

John Griffiths  250 OK Supreme from Northern Ireland ,on rocks in the Manx Classic Trial.

Can we really get machines back out of that dusky shed. PLEASE.

And try something different, a M&M Trial.

 

Photo Credit "Otterman". Taken this morning at 11 o'clock 20/03/2016.

 

BMCA, "BRITISH BIKE Trial" at Mockley Manor Farm Tanworth-in-Arden Warwickshire.

Report.

Spring was in the air, as the pockets of blue started to appear and sharp shards of golden sun started to pierce the warm muddy coloured cloud. by Midday the warmth of  approaching spring was with us.

From a distance the growl that only a Triumph Twin can make was interrupted by the barking of the Royal Enfields and the crack from Arthur Brownings Jawa.

The clucking of the flock of Bantams that seemed to have been breeding well over the winter months,  an Hybrid species named "Drayton",I was told.

The ground drying out over the past week has made an easy job of cleaning the bikes when the chaps get home. One could get caught out though as some of the underlying soil still had movement.

All in all you could not fault the weather, ground conditions, sections,  or riders ,but there were a few tricky turns catching them out, and also the lack as is usual of a few more observers, a nice little course of sections on limited ground, and  well worth getting the "Brit Bikes" back out for.

"Otterman".

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Now here is an interesting option for a New way for us to Score Trials from our old friend now living in the States. Mike Waller.

And running his own trial using his "M&M gate Scoring System".

Perhaps we could try it and see if anyone is interested.

It is a bit like the system we used at the "Classic Trials Show 2010" and that was instigated by Mike's and my friend Mick Andrews.

*****

 

***

Here is one of the Bonus Gate markers we used at the Classic Trials Show.2010.

 

So take a look at these "Walk Through s" and see what you think?

 

 

Sections 1 to 5. 

 

 

Sections 6 to 10.

 

 

Sections 11 to 15.

The Blue tape on the trees signifies the Left, so you know which way to pass through the Gate.

 

Sections 16 to 20. The End of the lap.

 

Look I will try and explain this system better when I have spoken to Mike,

But perhaps we could try this system, and see what response we have.

Mike describes it as being like playing a round of golf you mark your own card on the way around and then tot it up at the end, and don't forget there will be viewers so if you cheat you are only cheating yourself.

 

Right I have had a mail from Mike today, and has he says with this terrain he has, he as to do something more interesting with it, But would like the Old long "Blast from the Past" sections , but he only has this wooded hill terrain as a lot of us do even in the UK.

***

So here I go trying to make the M&M system clearer and probably getting it all wrong? 

But Mike will put me right I am sure..

 

 

There are twenty sections, so if you Clear every section you can score your self "Twenty" points. "One" for passing through each section.

Now on every section there are also "Gates" that you can score extra points,

"One point Gates".

"Two point Gates".

and the most difficult .

"Three point gates".

 

So if you think you are clever and have a bike that is a "Trickshock" or a "Modern", you could take on the difficult gates, and up your score, but if you get it wrong you loose the score on the gate, and just end up with the "Zero" for that section. and pass onto the next.

But if you "Dab" you get deducted "One" point from each "Dab" you make in that section and that then comes of of your score.

So You get the Jist of it ? you can if skilled enough, get your self a good tally of points.

But if you get it wrong, you end up with the same score as a Rigid Ariel like the one MICK ANDREWS  is on, and would you not bet that he to would take on some of the higher points gates?

Don't forget that it was Mick that set up a system similar to this at the Classic Trials Show, and that worked well.

 So it is down to you. Do you Want us to try it. 
Thank's Mike for bringing this Scoring system to the fore.

 

Mike;>

 One point to clarify on the gate system.
You only lose one point for each dab. So if you get say 7 points from the
gates, and you had two dabs getting through the section you will have a net 5
points.

You don't lose all the points you get from the gate if you dab
getting through it,you can not get a negative score.

Also I didn't make it clear that a failure gets you zero points the same as it would get you a

five in an ordinary trial.

This system is one of those things that when I
explain it to people they sometimes scratch their heads, but if I ride a
section for them they get it straight away.

I usually have a little section
marked out next to where I have the rider's meeting. It really makes it
simple if I can show how it works.

 

Mike. "Britannia Motorcycles."

 

Update from Mike.

 

Charlie if you are
wondering why M&M? it is from when I first put on a joint trial with Mike
Komer i.e. Mike & Mike. He laid out modern sections and I laid out vintage.
M&Ms is the name for Smarties here so the name just stuck. Now wasn't that a
fascination fact.

Michael Waller

 

Charlie;> As I say Mike "A pair of Smarties", to come up with this system.

 

I have just done a bit of homework about M&M's made by Mars.in the USA.

And Smarties now made by Nestles. in the UK?

 

So Mike perhaps we should try and set up a

"Transatlantic Classic Challenge Trial"

 

Between the USAs M&M's and the British Smarties?

Using your M&M rules! 

***

This is from Mike's Richford trial briefing that probably explains the system better than me.

Rider's Meeting.

 

Hello and welcome to another Richford Trophy M & M Trial. Here is all the information that would normally be given at the rider's meeting before the trial begins. You can telephone or e-mail Mike or me if you have any questions. Our contact details are on the flyer.

The trial is being run on the same rules as previous years. Number one being to enjoy yourself.

There are 2 loops of 20 sections. There is no start time, you may start anytime after 10:00 am, but to count in the results your score card must be handed in by 4:30 when the Chicken barbeque will be available.

The trial is self scoring and No Stop. No stop means no stationary hopping, no rolling backwards, and no stops of more than 1 second. As long as what you are doing keeps you moving forwards you are alright. Be honest with yourself for the benefit of the other riders.

Each section has 7 gates for a total of 10 points.That is 5 gates worth 1 point (including the FINISH), 1 gate worth 2 points, and 1 gate worth 3 points.

The rider is allowed to dab during the section, but each dab deducts 1 point from the Gate score for that section. Zero is the minimum score for a section (there are no negative scores).

White tape marks the section boundaries. Orange tape is to show how a gate should be approached when necessary. Caution tape is used for the loop to clarify direction.

***

Talking to Mike last night, a couple of points that I was not clear about, were cleared up.

1:> Each section is classed as one unit and the score you get riding through this section can only at the worst have a score of Zero,

IE: Say you have two or three Dabs, riding through the "Ride Through Route", Which has a score of "ONE" on the "Ends Gate" you loose that ONE, and end up with a Zero Score for that section, then move on to the next, You don't have to deduct the dabs you have made from your final score. I hope this is clear now.

 

2:> The flexibility of starting whenever you wish after the Start time has the advantage of , reducing the chance of Queuing or Crowding, if this does happen Mike says that one class is sent to start at different  Sections from the off, and then this evide's any hold ups, and helps to give a better riding experience.

 

 

Held for one year.

 

 

All Trophies held for one year.

 

 

 

Thanks Mike we must give this M&M system a go.

A Update of progress later.